333: Your Menstrual Cycle, Fertility & Hormones with Nicole Jardim | Understand Your Body, Combat Period Pain & Feel Better

Ella: Welcome you're on air with Ella, where we share simple strategies and truths from people who are doing something better than we are, whether it's wellness or fitness and fat loss to just living better and with more energy or changing your mindset to accomplish more in your own life and succeeding.

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Ella: Hey everyone, you're on air with Ella and I am absolutely delighted to bring you Nicole Jardim today. Nicole, how are you?

Nicole: I'm wonderful. Thanks so much for having me here.

Ella: Oh, I'm totally pumped and I'm actually like a little bit silly. So you guys, I always talk with our guests on the air before we go live and Nicole just has great energy and that feeds me and I'm already giddy and which is hilarious because what are we talking about today, Nicole?

Ella: We're talking about Periods.

Nicole: Periods. Yes. You should be giddy and excited. What more exciting,

Ella: giddy, inspiring topic is there than the woman's menstrual cycle?

Nicole: Truly. I couldn't think of something more. Yeah.

Look,

Ella: we're here to serve. We're going to make this fun. We're going to make it educational and men, those of you who are just like, Oh dear God, I want you to understand that if you can gain any insight from this podcast, you win life.

Ella: Am I right? Nicole.

Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. I think that this completely makes men's lives so much easier.

Ella: I agree. I might even let my husband tune into this one. Nicole, I happen to know that you're a certified women's health coach and the creator of Fixture Period, which is a series of programs that empower women to reclaim their hormonal health.

Ella: In a fun and dare I say it sassy way, but I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do

Nicole: for sure.

Nicole: I got into this work mainly because I had humongous period problems as a teenager. It was a complete disaster. I think that pretty much everything that could go wrong with a teenager's period would go wrong with mine.

Nicole: And eventually I found the birth control pill. My doctor basically was just like, you know what, you shouldn't be having these problems anymore, let's get you on the pill, and I was thrilled because I thought that I had found the magic bullet. Anyway, fast forward a couple of years, I had all the problems that one might have on the birth control pill, which we can definitely get into, and I decided that I'd had enough.

Nicole: So I got off the pill. I discovered acupuncture and I changed my diet. I changed my lifestyle. I did a complete overhaul and that led me into doing this work because I fell so in love with all the things that I was doing. I became completely obsessed and after that I decided to study health coaching and then I focused in on women's hormonal health and that led me to the place that I'm at today coaching women on how to fix their period.

Ella: Well, I love this because I know that you work with so many people who struggle with PCOS, with infertility, with PMS, and so much more than that. And you even have a podcast, don't you, called The Period Party?

Nicole: I do indeed, because it is a party.

Ella: Sounds counterintuitive to me.

Nicole: It will to most women until we have this conversation.

Nicole: I

Ella: love it, and that is why you're here.

Ella: And the other thing that I love about your work, Nicole, truly, is that instead of focusing on symptoms and the things that people might typically just throw a prescription at, you actually work with women and address root cause, and I just think that's so, so, so important, especially when it comes to hormonal imbalances and, and really, frankly, just this entire issue.

Nicole: I couldn't agree with you more. I think that we have spent a lot of money on symptom treatment, and I just really believe that we're at the point now where women are seeking much more and they need the right answers.

Ella: Well, I have a feeling that this show might open up other topics for us to talk about in the future, but today we want to sort of keep it simple and I'll tell you why.

Ella: I thought this was so great.

Ella: So Kate from Connecticut wrote to me. And I'm going to share her email with everybody now. So Kate says, I am living in Connecticut and I love your show. I've learned so much. Thank you for all that you do. I wonder if there can be an episode on periods. You know, you'd think I would know what was going on down there.

Ella: And I think I do. But do I, she said, I mean, I got the talk as a kid, but I was a kid. And now I want to know some science. I feel like I need a grownup version of the talk. And then she asked a bunch of great questions and I say, we just go through them. Yeah. I was like, if Kate has these questions up in Connecticut, lots of people must have these questions.

Ella: Let's talk about it.

Nicole: Absolutely. I could not agree with you more. They do. These questions I have had many times, so I'm excited.

Ella: I want to know from you, cause you work with just hundreds of women.

Ella: What is like the most common misconception around this whole issue? If there is one, what surprises you that we don't know or just that we believe to be true?

Nicole: I think that what surprises me most is the fact that women of all ages from puberty all the way through to even menopause. don't have a clear understanding of how their bodies work. I would say that the majority of women that I've encountered in my work do not know that ovulation happens on one day of their cycle, and they are fertile for a maximum of 48 hours every single cycle.

Nicole: I think that's the biggest misconception. And so many women are terrified of getting pregnant. They spend the majority of their lives being terrified of getting pregnant. And in fact, they're just fertile for two days out of the whole month. And so they're taking a pill or they're on an IUD or they're taking some other kind of hormonal birth control to prevent something that's happening one day of the month.

Nicole: So I think that that's unfortunately the biggest misconception because ovulation ladies is so necessary. And I can go into why that is.

Ella: Yeah, and we definitely will. And it's funny, Nicole, I didn't even really think about this until you said that, but who teaches this stuff? Like who tells us this stuff when we're growing up?

Nicole: Yeah, it really frustrates me because we need a complete overhaul of our sexual education and menstruation education system. There's nobody really talking about this, I think, on a national level. And I really believe that we should maybe think about emulating What happens in countries like Holland, where they start sex education and, you know, body literacy education, really, at a really young age, like four years old.

Nicole: I mean, it's obviously appropriate for four year olds, and then develops. over time as they get older and become more aware of their bodies and how their genitals function, their sexual organs function, and how periods come about, how babies come about. So it like progresses with them. But I think having a strong foundation from a really young age would be incredible.

Ella: You use the term body literacy. That is just everything because when people hear sex ed, it like brings up so many associations and it's even a political issue and it's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And what you're really talking about is body literacy. Like, how do these things work? And I'm sitting here thinking like, Who taught me?

Ella: I don't even know. I guess your friend with the older sister is how you learn everything.

Nicole: Oh my gosh. You're going to laugh. Like I was in grade school. I think I was eight and there was like a big commotion amongst all of my friends. And I was like, what's going on? Why is everybody so mad at my friend, Kimberly?

Nicole: And my other friend, Sam says to me, because she's saying that her parents didn't have sex to have her. And I was like, What's sex? And so of course Sam looks at me and just rolls her eyes and like walks away from me and I was like, Oh, okay. So that's sex. All right. I mean, like, nobody talks about this stuff.

Ella: We could do an entire show on things you think are true for the first, you know, 15 years of your life. And that would be a show that wrote itself. But okay, okay, okay. I love that at least we can talk about it now. Like, and maybe this show will be one for sharing guys with people in your life who are young and maybe wouldn't get this information anywhere else.

Ella: So let's have at it. What do you say, Nicole? Okay. Okay. I'm psyched.

Ella: Kate said first, why do I really have cramps? Great question, Nicole, justify cramps.

Nicole: Oh, those cramps. Okay. Cramps are tough because first of all, I would say that. 80 something percent of women who come to me because of course I ask these people questions about why they come to me.

Nicole: And so I asked, you know, what's your main problem? And I would say about 85 percent of women have some kind of menstrual pain or menstrual cramps. And we have them partly because, well, there's a couple of different reasons. I'm going to share three reasons, but just so everyone knows your uterus is a really powerful muscle and it contracts every single month.

Nicole: to help your body or help it release, uh, menstrual blood. So that's basically how it happens. It's the same thing if you go into labor and you're having a baby. Uterus is very strong. So, essentially, there are three different causes of period pain. So the first thing is a hormonal imbalance. And typically that starts with dysregulation of what is known as the HPA axis.

Nicole: And all that means is it's dysregulation of your stress system. So your adrenals communicating with your brain. So that's all that means. And I actually like to call it the HPA TG axis, which is the, includes the thyroid and the gonads or your ovaries and male genitals. So, because all of these endocrine glands are just connected, right?

Nicole: So they're all talking. So this axis is in control of all of your hormone regulation in the body and hormonal imbalances can be a cause for period pain and they can lead to conditions that cause period pain like endometriosis, adenomyosis, and uterine fibroids. So that's the first cause. The second thing that can happen are structural issues.

Nicole: So there might be. uterine misalignment. Believe it or not, your uterus can actually be off kilter and this can be caused by physical trauma, like a fall, even emotional trauma can cause this to happen.

Ella: Oh, that sounds awful.

Nicole: I know, I know. Abdominal surgery, like a c section, which is, It's very common these days can also cause scarring like scar tissue that pulls the uterus out of alignment, even conditions like endometriosis, fibroids, standing for long periods of time.

Nicole: If you have a job where you're standing for long periods of time, even high impact exercise like running on concrete, I mean of all things, but people do it. So all of this can potentially cause problems. And partly it's because your uterus is sort of suspended in the pelvic cavity and it's connected to ligaments.

Nicole: Or it's connected by ligaments to other parts of your body. So basically if there's much muscle damage or there are problems with a person's spine or their hips, there can be problems with the uterus and its placement in the pelvic cavity.

Ella: Let me interrupt you there real quick, if I can, because for all the people who are like squirming in their seats right now, are you more prone to that condition?

Ella: So for example, I don't think you're suggesting that. Runners should be afraid that they're going to throw their uterus out of alignment. But are people more prone to that condition? Or are you saying that perhaps if you're getting out of alignment, you haven't had an adjustment in many, many moons, or you have some other sort of acute event that all of these things can pile on?

Ella: Like, how concerned should we be about something like that?

Nicole: I mean, I don't want people to go freaking out and say, and just like never run again or anything like that. But I think that if you've had an experience where, like you've had a c section for instance, and you're having period pain that you didn't have before, that's when you would look into it.

Nicole: If you fell, for instance, and you're now having period pain, or you had some kind of surgery, that's when you would These are all things that I would want people to look into. And when I say this, when I say looking into this, you would want to consult with an expert. Someone like a pelvic physical therapist.

Nicole: So a pelvic physical therapist is going to be the person who can really help to figure out where the imbalance lies.

Ella: Okay. So interesting. Okay. So you said hormonal imbalance and dysregulation, misalignment. And then I interrupted you as you were about to explain another one.

Nicole: Absolutely. No worries. I'm glad that you, we clarified that.

Nicole: And then the third thing is inflammation in our bodies and inflammation is pretty chronic these days. You know, obviously not talking about like a scrape on your leg or something like that. I'm talking about this internal inflammation that's invisible. And is caused by stress and poor diet and, you know, all those fun things.

Nicole: But it's not so much the inflammation that actually causes the pain, but rather the prostaglandins. So these are basically, they're hormone like substances, and so they're released by the body to help the uterus contract at menstruation time. However, some women have more prostaglandins than other women, which will cause more period pain.

Nicole: And there's two types of prostaglandins, just so everyone knows, like, they're pro inflammatory, and there are other prostaglandins that are not pro inflammatory, so they're protective. And I don't know that it's luck of the draw, I don't know if there's like a genetic component or what it is, but ultimately, if there's inflammation present in the body from, like I said, you know, gut health problems, or, uh, chronic stress, or just a, you know, dietary problems, then what will happen is, uh, typically women will have more of these pro inflammatory prostaglandins, and that can lead to period pain.

Ella: I think a lot of women can relate to this now because even though they might not understand the science behind it, I know a lot of people will acknowledge when they're sort of eating like trash or just not taking great care of themselves that their periods are just like 10 times worse, whether it's the PMS is worse or even their period actually might be a less pleasant experience.

Ella: And now I get it because it's inflammation, it's hormonal imbalance, like all of that makes perfect sense.

Nicole: Oh, yeah, 100%, right? And I think like once women start to pay attention to what's happening throughout the month that leads up to their period, it's really incredible how you can see a difference.

Nicole: Like whether you've had maybe like a very stressful event happen, typically it's reflected in that week before your period and then the week of your period, you'll see a difference.

Ella: Which is so much fun because that's literally like half the month.

You're like,

Ella: it's a period before your period. It's the period.

Ella: It never stops.

Nicole: I know. Sorry guys, girls.

Ella: No, my job as a woman is to enjoy the three days a month where I feel awesome.

Nicole: That's my goal in life. It's to make it much more than three days. Nothing's

Ella: ovulating, nothing's bleeding, nothing's preparing. Like, I'm great. Enjoy the 72 hours, honey.

Nicole: Geez, Ella. Now I feel so bad.

Ella: Okay, I need to tune into the period party and find out what I'm missing, Nicole. That's gonna happen. Okay, let me get serious. All right, so what do we do? I know we'll get into more detail, but for people who are really suffering from cramps and didn't know that their diet would be affecting that, I think that's really useful insight.

Ella: What about those of us who do in fact pay attention to what we eat? But are suffering from, you know, some pretty severe cramping. What do you tell women like that? Where should they start? What can they do to alleviate their symptoms?

Nicole: Great question.

Nicole: I think that obviously I go to diet first, but if you feel like you're doing, you know, I obviously will look and see what's going on, but I have found that one of the biggest things that impacts period pain is getting your omega three, omega six balance ratio in balance.

Nicole: Yes, and the reason for that is those pesky prostaglandins again. So I mentioned those before and prostaglandin production is directly linked to the balance of fatty acids in our bodies. So there are the two key types of prostaglandins like I mentioned, right? So there's the PGE1 and there's the PGE2 and the PGE2 acts as an inflammatory agent.

Nicole: So think pain. while PGE 1 has anti inflammatory effects or protective effects. So the balance between these two is pretty critical when looking to address the issues associated with inflammation and painful periods. The PGE 1 prostaglandins are the end products of omega 3 fatty acids and the PGE 2 prostaglandins are derived from omega 6 fatty acids.

Nicole: Interestingly.

Ella: Yes. And so the standard American diet tends to be quite high in omega sixes and relative to that low in omega threes. Am I getting that right?

Nicole: Absolutely. Okay. Exactly.

Ella: And that's why fish oil supplements, good quality fish oil supplements are a good idea is because it's almost not even, I dare say, I'll screw this up.

Ella: You fix it. I dare say it's not even a lack of omega threes. That's the problem. It is. The high quantities of Omega 6s that are present in our world today that have thrown us off kilter. That's my understanding. The net result is the same though, isn't it, Nicole? Which is the best way. What you're looking for here is a ratio.

Ella: And the best way to balance out that ratio is to increase your Omega 3 intake.

Nicole: Absolutely. And to really work on reducing the Omega six intake. So that makes sense. Yeah. When we have, you know, we're all so exposed to canola oil, corn, soybean, peanuts, sunflower, cottonseed, palm oil, margarine shortening. I mean, all of these are pro inflammatory.

Nicole: They will contain those pro inflammatory omega sixes. So it's really our job to reduce our consumption of those significantly. And in fact, I've done research on this and my own research, of course, and experimentation where I just won't eat in a restaurant for a whole month. Okay. And that has dramatically changed my, like, period pain or, you know, whatever symptoms that I've been experiencing.

Nicole: So it's really fascinating to do those kinds of experiments on ourselves, just to be able to limit that overexposure, I think, to Omega 6s.

Ella: Yeah, and my listeners will remember us talking about this in recent history, and that is that Restaurants, with the best intentions, they are famous for using cheaper oils for all of the obvious reasons.

Ella: And by the way, even Whole Foods uses canola oil in its prepared foods, much to my chagrin. Even though I've asked them nicely not to.

Nicole: I know, same.

Ella: But the canola oil. It is marketed as, you know, your healthy cheap option, blah, blah, blah. And so it is used just so utterly prolifically everywhere. And it is such a factor in throwing this ratio off.

Ella: So I just like to connect the dots there for people. So even like the healthiest of restaurants sometimes, unless you can ask, but you know, 95 percent of them are using the canola oils and the cheap seed oils. Am I right?

Nicole: Yeah, no, that's absolutely correct. And unfortunately, most of the time it's genetically modified canola.

Ella: and bleached and processed and the list goes on. Okay. All right. So I did not know that. So the omega three to six balance, that is a factor in considering your symptoms and how much you may or may not be suffering during this process. What else?

Nicole: Yeah, that's a huge part of it, obviously. So the other thing that I also recommend to clients is looking at their dairy consumption.

Nicole: Yeah. Their dairy sensitivities are rampant and menstrual cramps are almost across the board. Menstrual cramps and breast pain. Are so connected to dairy sensitivities or allergies. So I always have people look at their dairy consumption and cut it out for a month, see what happens. Uh, of course there are other food sensitivities as well that are going to trigger this kind of inflammation and pain.

Nicole: The main ones obviously are wheat dairy, of course, uh, corn and soy. So I always have people look at that and think about cutting those out. And in addition to that, too, nightshade vegetables. can also potentially contribute to inflammation and pain in some people. So I have them remove those from their diet too to experiment and see if painful periods are reduced or eliminated.

Nicole: Then the other thing, I can't stress this enough, is looking at sugar, I recognize that sugar is a tough one for a lot of people, but I will say that eliminating sugar from your diet, and when I talk about sugar, I'm talking about Like the refined sugar, so cookies, eggs, and all the things, that has been just exponential for so many women I've encountered, so many clients who have cut it out and it's completely changed that inflammatory response happening in their bodies.

Ella: Well, one thing that I would encourage people to do, you know, so as not to get overwhelmed is to actually use the time, maybe the 10 days before your period to use that time to actually try eliminating some of these foods. Like if you're going to make the effort, what a brilliant time to do it because you might spare yourself quite a bit of suffering.

Ella: And I don't mean to imply I'm being way overly simplistic. I don't mean to imply that you. Cut these out for a week or 10 days and you know, life is grand and perfect and yeah, you did it all. Your problems are solved. Right? But what a great time to experiment because it has the happy side benefit of alleviating some of your symptoms.

Ella: I can tell you that everyone I know that I've ever talked about with this definitely sees changes in their pain and discomfort relative to improvements in their diet like hands down.

Nicole: 100%. I couldn't agree with you more. And I actually think too, when it comes to blood sugar, I just want to mention really quickly for all the ladies listening in that second half of your cycle, you're actually more prone to blood sugar imbalances because.

Nicole: Estrogen helps to stabilize your blood sugar in the first half of your cycle when it's high, and it's built, well, it's building up and it's high. And then in the second half, you have progesterone that's dominant. And progesterone, while it also does a bit of blood sugar stabilizing, it makes you more prone to those blood sugar dips.

Nicole: And that's blood sugar dips are very similar to PMS symptoms just so everybody knows it's all very similar. And in terms of the emotional symptoms that you experience, like the feelings of depression or you're really upset or you get angry or you have these outbursts and you know, like hangry is a thing, but it's also very much like PMS.

Nicole: So I think that women have to really recognize that. So what you're saying, like the 10 days leading up to your period, if you're really cognizant during those times of these changes. You can see a good improvement.

Ella: Well, were you referring to the second half of your cycle? Like the actual 28 day cycle or the second half of your period?

Ella: Help me make sure I understand. Oh

Nicole: yeah, sorry, I should say that. So it's the 28 day cycle or you know, however long your cycle is. It could be 35 days. It could be even shorter or longer. But yes, the whole cycle, not just your period.

Ella: So the first half in very simplistic terms, the first half of the cycle, your estrogen.

Ella: is higher and then the second half of your cycle progesterone is higher?

Nicole: Yeah, so everyone understands how it works. Basically, the first day of your period is considered the first day of your cycle. And that will usually run from anywhere from like two to seven days. Sometimes a little bit shorter for some people, sometimes longer for some people.

Nicole: Again, it's indicative of an underlying hormonal imbalance. which we can discuss but ultimately that's the first day of your cycle and then estrogen builds after your period so it builds up and that's what will help kick off ovulation which typically happens in the middle of your cycle and then after ovulation has happened then we have a buildup of progesterone and progesterone is like the pro gestation hormone meaning that it's preparing your body for a potential pregnancy after you've ovulated and it will do that for about 12 to 16 days.

Nicole: And then the little sac that your egg came out of, it's been producing that progesterone. And so that basically just kind of shrivels up and dies, and then there's no more progesterone, and that will trigger your period. So progesterone keeps your uterine lining in place until your body realizes there's no baby, and then the progesterone drops significantly, and that triggers your uterine lining to shed, and Starts the whole cycle all over again.

Ella: Is this cycle really affected by the moon cycle?

Nicole: Oh, I love this question. Yes, I feel like it is. I think there's always going to be people who don't agree with that, but I actually wanted to answer this question with a quote from Dr. Christiane Northrup. She wrote women's bodies, women's wisdom, which I feel like is.

Nicole: every woman's bible. Oh good, I will link to that. Yeah, that would be so great. So she says in her book, even in modern society where we're cut off from the rhythms of nature, the cycle of ovulation is influenced by the moon. And then she says, scientific research has documented that the moon rules the flow of fluids, ocean tides, as well as body fluids and affects the unconscious mind and dreams.

Nicole: The timing of the menstrual cycle, the fertility cycle and labor as well. Also follow the moon dominated tides of the ocean, environmental cues, such as light, the moon, and the tides play a documented role in regulating women's menstrual cycles and fertility. So basically one can determine that. I think the full moon has an impact on our ovaries.

Nicole: And the reason actually is because. Moonlight directly influences our pineal gland, and that's in our brain, and that actually monitors the rhythms and timing of important biological processes in our bodies, like ovulation, and our circadian rhythm, daily rhythms. So yeah, like, I really believe that there is an impact, and so much of this is basically based on light, right?

Nicole: So it's. All of this, our circadian rhythm, our daily rhythm, is totally influenced by the pineal glands ability to use the light that's transmitted through the retina in our eye. And then it works with the brain, the hypothalamus, and the pituitary glands, which are the epicenter of all of our hormone function, and it regulates our hormonal rhythms based on that.

Nicole: So I've just witnessed it myself and other women, that exposing yourself to moonlight during a full moon will ultimately help to regulate your menstrual cycles. I've seen women get their periods back when they have not had a period. I've seen women regulate their cycles when they've had extremely long or short cycles.

Nicole: So there's a lot of really cool things that I've seen happen in connection to the moon.

Ella: Do you think that in an ideal situation, you would sort of cycle with the moon? I feel silly asking this, but truly like if everything is sort of, running smoothly, would you ideally be synced up where you had your period during the full moon or is there, am I making this up because I've heard people say that before, but you know.

Ella: Everything I read on the internet is true, right, Nicole?

Nicole: That's right. Everything on the internet is true. Come on, now. You know, I've had it go all different ways, by the way. For years, I was not at all synced with the moon, but I, granted, I wasn't making a humongous effort to do it. I'm now, interestingly, I'm getting my period with the full moon, and I'm ovulating with the new moon.

Nicole: But the goal ultimately is to be ovulating with the full moon and then getting your period on the new moon. And that is based, I think, so much in history where that's how women charted their menstrual cycles because they didn't have apps on their iPhones, obviously. So that's basically what happened.

Nicole: And you know, because their

Ella: iPhones sucked back in the K days, no service at all.

Nicole: I cannot imagine that they had any service. So they just developed a system to depend on the moon and the reason for that is the moon cycle is actually 29 and a quarter days and a typical woman's menstrual cycle is 28 days.

Nicole: So what happened is a lot of women would actually get married around ovulation time around the full moon because that would mean that they would potentially get pregnant right away, which was the goal. And so that's essentially what I ask women to do now. And I think so much of it is the fact that we are really disconnected from.

Nicole: nature in general, I always feel like, you know, we don't really have a vitamin D deficiency. We have a nature deficiency. And so when we can reconnect with all of the cycles in nature, I think it helps our bodies reconnect and start to function the way they were meant to.

Ella: Nicole, I do too. And what I'm like giggling about and being very childish about is that this is true for me.

Ella: Like, I don't really want to do a show about Ella's periods.

What?

Nicole: You don't? Are you sure?

Ella: Maybe part two, but. The more imbalance I got, and that's in quotes, but seriously, like the more I worked, focused on being outside more and chilling out a little bit more, like I am in alignment with the moon cycle. So now you guys know if I'm ever rude and it's a full moon.

Ella: Now, you know why

Nicole: that is why you just shared that go yet,

Ella: but I mean, in all honesty, I find it sort of fascinating that that is the natural gravitation. And again, it is so many factors are at play here that I don't mean to imply that you're broken if you're not cycling with Nicole and myself, not at all, nor am I recommending that we all get together for any reason during this time, but I do find it kind of fascinating.

Ella: So. That's one more question that I have in this area.

Ella: Do women really sync up the more time they spend together? Ugh,

Nicole: shucks, it drives me crazy because there was a study recently that says there's no truth to that whatsoever. So I asked all of the women on my Facebook page whether they felt like that was real, and they all seem to think that we do sync up together.

Nicole: I feel that way as well. Science, schmiance, whatevs. I really don't buy it. Like I actually feel that way. I, every woman I've ever lived with, we always end up syncing up. My sister and I were synced up as kids, kids, teenagers, when we lived in the same house. Yeah. It's just always been that way. Do you feel that way too?

Ella: Yeah. I started a business. Okay. It's a show about my period. Let's just embrace it. Okay. Sorry. I started a business with a lovely, lovely woman who became like a sister to me because we started a business together. And she and I really didn't even know one another. And then we started this business and within three months we were in perfect sync, which is by the way, like horrible.

Nicole: Well, it is. It's true. When running a business together, not so great.

Ella: One of us needs no, no, I'm just kidding. But in all honesty, utterly fascinating. So I don't know what the female version of bro science is, but I don't care what the studies say. I think there's this science at play here. I'm going to own it.

Ella: Um, okay. How much blood do we really lose? And is it really blood? Somebody wants to know.

Nicole: Oh, that's such a good question.

Nicole: Okay, so I should probably start with maybe what normal periods are and what that looks like. I think maybe so that people can understand what the baseline is. You know, I want to just say normal periods are defined as vaginal bleeding.

Nicole: They occur every 25 to 35 days.

Nicole: Typically last two to seven days, like I was saying before, and the average blood loss is about 10 to 35 milliliters. So essentially, each soaked regular pad or tampon holds roughly 5 milliliters of blood. So it's totally fine to, I know, it's totally fine to soak two to seven pads or tampons during each period.

Nicole: So if your period lasts longer than seven days, and you're losing more than 80 milliliters of blood per cycle, or you're soaking more than 16 regular tampons or pads per cycle, Then this is a sign of a heavier than average flow and other signs are flooding like you're changing like every 30 minutes or something like that, or that you have clots that are the size of a quarter or bigger.

Ella: I don't think people know this because people just know what they know. They know their own experience and unless they have any like acute event or something. that they actually have to deal with and they know they have to deal with. I don't, who talks about this?

Nicole: Nobody talks about this. That's the thing.

Nicole: I talk about it on my blog. Hopefully people read it. But yeah, I mean, and so just so everyone knows, FYI, 80 milliliters is about five and a half tablespoons or two and a half, like 2. 7 liquid ounces. So basically 16 soaked regular tampons or pads. It's crazy, huh? Yeah, it is. Five and a half tablespoons, not a lot.

Nicole: No, and you're saying But there's other things in there, just so everyone knows.

Ella: Tell me about the figure of 80. Tell me why, what's significant about that.

Nicole: I don't know. That's just what the science says. But you're saying

Ella: 10 to 35 mils is how much you can expect to shed in a day or throughout an entire period?

Nicole: Oh, average blood loss is an entire period. So once, yeah, like that's usually what people are averaging out. I, you know, when I did the research, this is what those studies were saying, that 80 seems to be this number where that's the threshold.

Ella: Nicole, I messed something up. So what is the 10 to 35 mil?

Ella: What's that range?

Nicole: So basically, the average blood loss is 10 in an entire period. Okay.

Ella: Okay. Yeah. 80 is bad.

Nicole: So 80 is considered like, if you go over 80, that's really considered heavy periods. Like 10 to 35 is just what usually people will lose. But some women are higher. Some women are like at 50 or 60 and that's not a big deal.

Nicole: It's just the threshold seems to be about 80 milliliters. When you get past that, that's considered a quote unquote heavy period, an abnormally heavy period.

Ella: Okay. That's really helpful because, and again, people aren't measuring this, but you're saying if you're bleeding through and changing hourly, that's a sign.

Nicole: Exactly. So if you're changing. Thank you. Basically, every hour or less than an hour, then I think that's a sign of a heavy period or an abnormally heavy period.

Ella: Oh, gosh, that's so helpful. Okay. So while we're here, let's spend a little more time here.

Ella: People have questions about tampons. They're like, what kind of tampon should we be using?

Ella: Like what criteria should we be looking for? Are tampons bad for you? You know. Give us Tampon 101.

Nicole: Yes, Feminine Care Products 101. Has anyone who is listening to this ever stopped to think about the ingredients in their menstrual pads or their tampons or even their lubricants or feminine care wipes or creams?

Nicole: The amount of endocrine disrupting chemicals in these products is staggering. And I always recommend women take a look. And start to switch out products if they've been using something that's conventionally made because usually that causes a whole host of problems, the, the vaginal tissue, the vulva, very thin tissue has a very rich blood supply.

Nicole: It's actually very absorbent tissue, so it allows products to be absorbed really quickly into our system. In fact, uh, drug companies have even experimented with vaginally delivered drugs because of how absorbent the tissue is. So that makes sense because we also have, uh, vaginally delivered hormones. So it completely makes sense that we would, we would do it that way.

Nicole: But tampons I think in particular are in direct contact with the walls of the vagina for really long periods of time. So those are the ones that I would say to women, if you are using tampons from one of those big brands, I would switch immediately to organic cotton tampons. Because there's actually never been a case of toxic shock syndrome with organic cotton tampons.

Nicole: Oh, you're kidding me. Seriously. So to me, that indicates the chemicals that are in tampons, which I mean, they are considered a medical device. So the FDA doesn't really regulate them, which is unfortunate. And there are all kinds of like bleaching products that are used. So there's dioxin in tampons, which can obviously be very dangerous over a long period of time, that kind of exposure.

Nicole: So like I said, I'm a big fan of the organic cotton and there are a number of brands that create organic cotton tampons and pads now. So there's a lot of options.

Ella: I'm enjoying seeing companies come into the market where they're actually now caring about this, because this is one of those things that there are just a few players in the big box stores, and you're used to seeing all the same names, but there are actually some new entrants into this market who are actually, first of all, targeting adults who don't necessarily need to buy, like, bright pink sparkly tampons, and also who cater to, you know, the people who want the organic and cardboard, no plastic and all of that.

Ella: So there are actually some new entrants into the market. I'll try and link to some. Who are starting to care about this a little bit more.

Nicole: Yeah. I've got some names for you. I can definitely share those. Oh, fantastic. There's a bunch of, of great ones. There's Lola organic cotton pads and tampons, Cora organic tampons as well.

Nicole: Uh, Maxim hygiene. They've been making cotton pads and tampons for a long time. And the bigger brands like nature care and seventh generation, you'll find those in whole foods. Some of them are even making it into target now as well, too. So there's great options.

Ella: Well, let's talk about an option that some people have heard of and some people have not, and that is the menstrual cup.

I

Nicole: just love the way you introduced that. The

Ella: menstrual cup.

Nicole: That was so amazing. In a world. I actually really, in addition to the menstrual cup, I would really love to talk about period underwear too, because I feel like that. Period

Ella: underwear? Oh my gosh, wait, I'm going to add that to my list. Period underwear.

Ella: Let's talk about it. Okay, so menstrual cup and then period underwear and anything else you have in your toolkit. I want to hear about it.

Nicole: For sure. The menstrual cups have really made a splash, I think, on the scene. Is that really bad? How could I not? How could I really not say that? I'm sorry.

Ella: I am 11 years old.

Ella: Okay. So, okay. What is the menstrual cup?

Nicole: So menstrual cup is essentially a silicone cup, a cup like thing that is made out of silicone. So it's safe. There's no plastic involved. I actually had somebody asked me that the other day. She said, I've heard that menstrual cups are really bad for you because they're made of plastic.

Nicole: Nope. They're not made of plastic. They're made of medical grade grade silicone and they are inserted into the vagina and they can be in there for up to 12 hours depending on how hard, how heavy your flow is. Okay. So, they come in all different shapes and sizes, that's the other thing. There are a lot of brands now offering cups.

Nicole: Yeah. Diva Cup was kind of the original Gangster, and now there are a lot more. There's a brand called Lunette. There's one called Lina Cup, Ruby Cup. There's one called Femicycle, which is the most interesting one to me, Femicycle is. And the reason for that is because they have a bit of a lip. So when you take the cup out, you actually could turn it upside down and no liquid will come out, which is fascinating.

Nicole: So when I saw that demonstration, I thought, wow, that's really cool. Because for anybody who has taken a D. Va cup out, they know, or any cup really, they know that there could potentially be a massacre. Sorry, I feel like this is a lot of information.

Ella: No, the most fun thing to do in the world is to go to Amazon and read the reviews for menstrual cups because People describe their experiences with them.

Ella: And, and honestly, I mean, obviously I should like, you know, get out more, but it was very, very amusing, which is the name of the brand that you like. I'm going to link to it.

Nicole: Absolutely. So I, there are a couple, I like Lunette. Diva Cup is also great too. A lot of people like that. Semicycle is the one with the, yeah.

Ella: Fantastic. Okay. And so people who have not heard of this before. So the people who use them, love them. This is my anecdotal experience. People that use them, love them. They're much more environmentally friendly. Obviously you're not creating the waste. Logistically, they can be a challenge if you're out and about.

Ella: That's been my experience. Like, if you're out and about, it presents a little bit of a challenge, but because you can wear them for so long, it, it's much less of a challenge in that regard. Do you have any sort of practical tips or comments you want to make there?

Nicole: I wish I could say I do, but I also have had my struggles with cups.

Nicole: So I prefer period underwear, which we'll talk about. But, yes, there are a couple of things that I would say with the menstrual cup. I think the first thing is to really look at the tutorials and the videos online. There is definitely a learning curve. You do not want to try the menstrual cup for the first time ever and then go to theme park, for instance.

Nicole: Uh, not recommended. I would definitely try over a weekend if you're not around, not doing anything, you're not busy. And then I think that it really takes some configuring to get it into the right position so that there are no leaks. And I was able to do that, but I found that getting it out was a real challenge and then discovered that one has to like break the suction and that's how you get it out.

Nicole: But I think that there are so many different kinds of cups now that there are, it's suitable for all different kinds of, Vaginas and cervixes.

Ella: I love that we're both giggling around this issue because at the end of the day, we are talking about a menstrual cup that you can sort of fold up and then you kind of stick it on up in there.

Ella: And then it expands once it's open. It's mess free for the entire time that you're wearing it. Hopefully, unless you did it wrong. And again, it has this sort of long wearing aspect to it, but yeah, all of the things that we've described about it are exactly what the challenges are with it. So that led you to period underwear.

Ella: Do tell.

Nicole: Yeah, I started using Think's underwear probably about three years ago, three and a half years ago. They did a big campaign in the New York subway system about two years ago. And yes, of course they did. And that really kicked off. This whole period underwear craze. But essentially what they are is like a very thin pad built into underwear and cute underwear, which is great.

Nicole: And it can hold, you know, that goes from a thong all the way to a regular pair of underwear and boy shorts and different kinds of undies as well. And it depends on, you know, the type of underwear that you have, but it can hold from like half a tampon's worth to three tampons worth, I believe, I've used.

Nicole: And then Luna Pads, they are a cotton pad company, reusable cotton pads. They also make Luna Undies, same deal. Luna Undies are great because they're actually organic cotton, which I would prefer. But both companies make really amazing period underwear. And for me, I just much prefer that. It's so much easier for me to pack, first of all, if I'm traveling, because I forget tampons and pads and things like that all the time.

Nicole: And in fact, my boyfriend has said to me, I'm the most unprepared period girl he's ever met.

Ella: Of all the podcasters on periods that he knows, you are the least prepared.

Nicole: Pretty much. So the period underwear works really well for me. It's just like packing regular underwear. And, yeah, I really enjoy it because you can see how your period's going all month long, whereas with something internal, it's a little bit more difficult to figure out whether you have clots, for instance, or how heavy your period really is, or what the color is.

Nicole: And these are all signs that I think women should be paying attention to.

Ella: Okay, I didn't know this existed. So of course everybody knows that with this post on OnAirWithElla. com, I'm going to link to all of these things. But Nicole, just one sort of obvious and a little bit yucky question. I assume that we can take for granted that we're not sitting in our own mess.

Nicole: Yes. A lot of people ask me that. They say that

Ella: product would not last super long. It'd be like, that's just underwear.

Nicole: Yes, exactly. I think, yeah, people need to understand that the material that's used is super absorbent. So you don't feel like that at all. And I change them throughout the day. Same kind of thing, like you would change a pad or a tampon for instance.

Nicole: And it depends obviously on how heavy or light your flow is. But you usually just, I put them in a water soap solution, soak them for a little bit, and then just throw them all into the washing machine and wash them. Okay, this is

Ella: amazing. And there are so many choices, uh, that I didn't even know existed.

Ella: So okay, I will share that with everybody. Nicole, I know I don't have a huge amount of time with you left. Can I do some rapid fire kind of lightning round questions with you?

Nicole: Of course.

Ella: Okay.

Ella: What is endometriosis?

Nicole: Oh, such a good question. Endometriosis is a condition that causes a lot of pain in many, many women, and it's actually become one of these conditions that I think has, uh, really gotten a lot of attention recently.

Nicole: So endometriosis. I refer to it as secondary dysmenorrhea, meaning that it's, there's period pain that's due to another problem. And so endometriosis is that problem. Endometriosis essentially is when endometrial tissue grows outside of the uterus. So that same tissue that builds up every single month, It grows outside of the uterus.

Nicole: That's called endometriosis. And it's actually commonly diagnosed later in a woman's life because it actually takes really long. It takes, in fact, almost up to 10 years for women to get a proper diagnosis of endo. And the reason partly for that is because endo is only diagnosed through laparoscopic surgery.

Nicole: That's the only like gold standard way to diagnose it. And it's not often confined to pelvic organs, so it can be outside the uterus, it can be on the fallopian tubes, the ovaries, even the ligaments that hold these organs in place, and it can even spread into our abdomens. our intestine, the lining of our abdomen, the bladder, the rectum.

Nicole: And of course, like this can cause a lot of pain because it's responsive to our cyclical hormonal nature. So it's responsive to estrogen and progesterone. And when our uterine lining builds up every single month, It's going to build up everywhere. It doesn't matter where it's at. And so it can cause really, really painful periods.

Nicole: It can cause pain during sex. It can cause bowel and urinary disorders, periods that last longer than seven days, have really heavy menstrual flow and even nausea, vomiting. A lot of different symptoms are associated with it.

Ella: Okay, and so if any of those symptoms are ringing any bells for you, then you might want to raise this question and talk to a practitioner about that.

Ella: Okay. What then is PCOS?

Nicole: PCOS is polycystic ovarian syndrome. And polycystic ovarian syndrome is kind of a misnomer because it was always commonly associated with many cysts on our ovaries, hence the name. But that actually isn't necessarily what you need to diagnose the condition anymore. And it's, it more than anything, I believe it to be an insulin dysregulation condition, dependent condition.

Nicole: And what that means is when our blood sugar and our insulin become dysregulated, which happens amongst many women these days because of our diet and our lifestyle, of course not blaming anybody, but this is what tends to happen. Our insulin is a powerful hormone. It's not a hormone you want to mess with.

Nicole: And on our ovaries, we have insulin receptors. So what happens is insulin sort of tells the ovaries, let's not produce so much estrogen and progesterone anymore. Let's produce testosterone. So that's the shift that happens in women. The opposite happens in men. They produce less testosterone and more estrogen, which is interesting and why many men end up having a lot of abdominal fat and unfortunately grow men boobs.

Nicole: Because. the opposites happening for them. For women, this higher testosterone causes our ovulation to sputter and for us to stop ovulating consistently and getting consistent periods. And then it can also cause hair growth in our face, acne, hair loss in our heads. And weight gain

Ella: and it's treatable. So that is something to be paying attention to.

Ella: And that's okay. So that's obviously an ovulation disruptor. What are some others?

Ella: What are some other common ovulation disruptors for those who are definitely interested in, in their fertile years?

Nicole: Yeah, I would say one of the biggest things is just this chronic overstimulation that we're all Exposed to so many people are just chronically stressed and I don't even like to say the word stress anymore I like to say chronic overstimulation because it's coming from all different angles, right and I have found that there are Situations where a woman is about to ovulate and say she has like a really really bad couple of days at work where she's got Like a huge meeting or a business trip or something like that and her body Senses all of this stress and says, Oh, you know what, it might not be so safe to ovulate right now because it's not safe to get pregnant and because our bodies don't know any better.

Nicole: They don't know the difference between a big meeting or a big job interview and being chased by a lion on the Serengeti. I mean, they just don't know that they just interpret it as external stress. And so what happens is our body says, Okay, we won't ovulate right now. We'll ovulate in a couple of days.

Nicole: We'll try again. And that can further prolong ovulation if the stress continues. And you may not ovulate at all one month. That happens all the time. So that's one of the biggest things I think. And really learning to mitigate the effects of stress is, I think, so, so crucial for women. The other thing I would say is light at night.

Nicole: I know we talked about the moon. And the moonlight at night is the only moonlight you really want to be seeing. Because your melatonin levels can drop significantly if we're exposed to this chronic blue light in our computer screens or our phone. Yeah. So that blue light affects our melatonin production.

Nicole: And in fact, low melatonin can affect our fertility. So it affects how we ovulate. And so it can push that down. It can suppress ovulation. If we have too low melatonin, because again, there's receptors as well on our ovaries for melatonin. So it's really important for us to think about our light at night.

Nicole: Make sure you're shutting down your computer at the latest 9 p. m. Your phone as well, put on the night shift mode on your phone. It's not the greatest, but it'll help. There's an app called Flux that you can put on your computer that's also amazing. It'll give your computer a nice pretty orangey glow.

Nicole: Flux. Flux. Flux. So that those things will definitely help, uh, blue blocking shades, not super sexy, but those help as well to mitigate the light at night and keep the lights in your house dim. I can't walk into a bright house anymore at night now. I find that it's really jarring. Yeah. So I always, you know, I keep the lights dim and I also use a lot of candles.

Nicole: And that really helps wind down, increase your melatonin production, which of course will impact how you ovulate. So I would say those are two of the biggest ones.

Ella: That's going to surprise some people. And Nicole, I think what's interesting about this is both of those things also have an impact on how rapidly you age.

Ella: So even if you're like, well, I'm not trying to make a baby right now, so I'm good. I would say, actually, if you want to not press fast forward on the aging button, Uh, these two things are very much worth paying attention to. Thank you for that, Nicole.

Of

Nicole: course.

Ella: All right. I have two more questions for you.

Ella: What are some of your favorite supplements for improving ovulation and or your period, Nicole, or something you think we should stay away from? It's entirely up to you.

Nicole: For sure. I really recommend, and this is obviously for clients and everyone can take this with a grain of salt, but I'm a big fan of the B complex of vitamins.

Nicole: So that includes, you know, B1 through B12, they work wonders for a whole host of period problems. I mean, from heavy periods, abnormal spotting or irregular bleeding, breast pain, endometriosis even, and cramping, as well as PMS symptoms. So those can work really, really well. I'm a big fan of the Bs. And the reason, partly, is because when we're chronically stressed, it actually Causes a lot of those B vitamins to be released in our urine faster.

Nicole: So high cortisol levels do that. So it's always great to be replenishing them. And they're water soluble, so they, you can't necessarily overdose on them. I mean, I don't recommend doing that, obviously, but it's harder to do that. So I would say a B complex. Really, really helpful in supporting as well serotonin production, stabilizing our moods.

Nicole: The other one I would say is magnesium. Oh my gosh, if there was ever a mineral that I would recommend for women, it would be that because it plays such a big role in all sorts of hormone balancing things going on in our bodies. Yes. So yes, I would say that that's a really helpful supplement as well.

Ella: Which form there are so many people asking that all the time.

Nicole: I know there's a lot. I mean, magnesium citrate is great for women who are suffering from constipation, which tends to happen a lot in the second half of the cycle. Progesterone can cause constipation. So I find magnesium citrate is really helpful for that.

Nicole: But magnesium glycinate is the one that I've recommended continually. That seems to be the one that's well absorbed or more well absorbed. So I would recommend the magnesium glycinate for, uh, balancing hormones. But also think about too, I want people to think about blood sugar regulation. Magnesium is especially helpful for that.

Nicole: So women who have PCOS or insulin resistance, magnesium will help to improve insulin resistance and even low grade inflammation, which Is really problematic for people with hormonal imbalances.

Ella: Okay, and for everyone trying to remember all of this, don't you worry, I've got you covered. I'm taking furious notes and these will all be in the show notes.

Ella: Okay, alright, last question for you, Nicole. What is your favorite way to track your cycle and or your fertility? What are you loving right now?

Nicole: Yes, love this. I have been using an app called Kindara for, geez, it's probably going on six years now. Can you spell that for me? Yes. It's K I N D A R A. Okay. And they have a thermometer that doesn't come with the app, but you can get a thermometer that's also made by Kindara.

Nicole: The thermometer is called Wink. And it's a cute little thermometer and basically I take my basal body temperature. So that's your temperature first thing upon awakening. And what's really cool about a woman's body is that her basal temperature will be low before ovulation and then post ovulation it'll be higher.

Nicole: So there's a definite shift that happens. So you know exactly when you've ovulated. So that's what I do and it has a Bluetooth mechanism so it just inputs the temperature right into the app immediately and I can just input symptoms and whether I have my period or whatever. So it's really cool to be able to see that shift.

Nicole: So that's called a fertility awareness based method of birth control and that's what I've been using probably for like 10 11 years. So Kindara is one. The other thing that I use that I think is really cool as well. And I just use it because I use like five different tracking apps and cause I'm crazy, but, uh, yeah, I think so.

Nicole: Uh, it's called Daisy. So that's D A Y S Y. This is a little different. It's actually a fertility monitor. And it's also the same thing. So you're taking your basal temperature. So first thing upon awakening, before you even get up to pee or even do anything, check your phone. Uh, and what you do is you take your temperature.

Nicole: It will tell you via a red or a green or an orange light, whether you're fertile or not fertile. So it takes about three months to learn your cycle, and it uses an algorithm to learn that cycle, and then it'll give you green days for the days that you can have unprotected sex, and red days for the days that you cannot.

Ella: Okay, I think this is actually kind of revolutionary, and I'm embarrassed to admit, only mildly so, embarrassed to admit that I did not use any kind of tracking app or anything. I mean, only until recent history. And in doing so, just like anything, when you start paying attention, you learn so much. So whether you're trying to get pregnant, whether you're trying to not get pregnant, whether that's not even an issue for you, tracking actually teaches you so much about your body, and these apps just make it just, just so easy.

Ella: I mean, you're not doing anything.

Nicole: I know it's incredible. It's so, so helpful to have this kind of data about your body. We never had this before. And now we do. And women can take this information to their doctors. If they end up having trouble getting pregnant, they can look back at their patterns to see what could possibly be going on.

Nicole: I can't tell you how many women have come to me who weren't able to get pregnant. They've been trying for six months. They don't know what's going on. And I have them start charting their cycles and we can see almost immediately with well immediately I say within the first couple of months sure where they should when in their cycle They should be having sex a lot of women are having sex too early and they're ovulating a little bit later And they had no idea and they're able to get pregnant.

Nicole: It's incredible to have this kind of information about your body

Ella: I think it is so powerful because it empowers you to sort of think of yourself in a different way too. And there are so many side benefits. And one of which is if you're getting blood work done, it entirely matters. If you're getting a hormone panel, for example, it matters enormously what day of your cycle it is, because, you know, you were explaining estrogen is high in the first half progesterone is high in the second half.

Ella: And the day that you have your blood work done. You know, it's hopefully actually you want it to be a completely different story on day one than it would be on day 15. Your body's doing entirely different things. Well, I didn't even know what day 15 was until obviously, you know, until I started having my app do the work for me.

Ella: So I just think it's just such an easy hack. Don't you?

Nicole: Oh, I 100 percent think so. I think that women are then able to have body literacy when they have this information. They understand. That this is how their unique body works and that they don't need to necessarily go to a doctor and be told how their body should work.

Nicole: They already know this. They have the answers within.

Ella: Nicole, you have been an absolute gem. Thank you so much for this. And what I want everybody to do is I know this will raise questions or there's something people wish that I had asked that I didn't tell me what you want to hear from Nicole. And we'll beg, borrow, and steal her and get her back on the air.

Ella: How's that sound, Nicole? That would

Nicole: be so amazing. I feel like we didn't even cover all of the things that we wanted to talk about.

Ella: Well, we have so many years of body literacy that never happened, and it's our job to inform the people.

Nicole: That's right.

Ella: Nicole, thank you so much for your time.

Nicole: Thank you so much.

Nicole: It was amazing, Ella.

Ella: All right. Talk soon. Okay, everyone. I hope you enjoyed today's show and got something out of it that you can use. If you did, and you want to learn more, just go to on air with links to all of the good stuff that we talked about today and more information about our guests and all the good stuff.

Ella: That you did not need to write down today because I got you covered. Thanks for those phenomenal reviews in iTunes, every great review helps, and we read every one. Thanks for listening. And thanks for inspiring me. You are quite simply awesome.